When Germany is Christian, is India Hindu?

Nice blog post from a German living in India:

When Germany is Christian, is India Hindu?

by Maria Wirth

Click here for source

Though I live in India since long, there are still some points that I find hard to understand – for example why many so called educated Indians on TV discussion forums become agitated whenever ‘Hindutva’ is mentioned. The majority of Indians are Hindus. India is special because of its ancient Hindu tradition. Westerners are drawn to India because of it. Why then is there this resistance by many Indians to acknowledge the Hindu roots of their country? Why do some people even give the impression as if an India that values those Hindu roots was dangerous? Don’t they know better?

Their attitude is strange for two reasons. First, those people have a problem only with ‘Hindu’ India, but not with ‘Muslim’ or ‘Christian’ countries. Germany for example, is a secular country and only 59 percent of the population are registered with the two big Christian Churches (Protestant and Catholic). Nevertheless, the country is bracketed under ‘Christian countries’. Angela Merkel, the Chancellor, stressed recently the Christian roots of Germany and urged the population ‘to go back to Christian values’. In 2012, she postponed her trip to the G-8 summit for a day to address the German Catholic Day. In September 2011, the Pope was invited to address the German Parliament. Two major political parties carry ‘Christian’ in their name, including Angela Merkel’s ruling party. Government agencies even collect the Church tax (8 percent of the income tax) and pass it on to the Churches.

Germans are not agitated that Germany is called a Christian country, though I actually would understand if they were. After all, the history of the Church is appalling. The so called success story of Christianity depended greatly on tyranny.  “Convert or die”, were the options given not only to the indigenous population in America some five hundred years ago. In Germany, too, 1200 years ago, the emperor Karl the Great ordered the death sentence for refusal of baptism in his newly conquered realms. It provoked his advisor Alkuin to comment: ‘One can force them to baptism, but how to force them to believe?’’ Heresy was put down with an iron hand. I still remember a visit to the Nuremberg castle prison as a school kid. There, we were shown the torture chamber and the torture instruments that were used during inquisition. Unbelievable cruelty!

Those times, when one’s life was in danger if one dissented with the dogmas of the Church, are thankfully over. And nowadays many in the west do dissent and leave the Church in a steady stream – in Germany alone over 2 million officially signed out in the last ten years and during a survey in 2011, 5,5 million Germans ‘considered’ leaving the Church – partly because they are disgusted with the less than holy behavior of Church officials and partly because they can’t believe in the dogmas, for example that ‘Jesus is the only way’ and that God sends all those who don’t accept this to hell.

And here comes the second reason why the resistance to associate India with Hindutva by Indians is difficult to understand. Hinduism is in a different category from the Abrahamic religions. Its history, compared to Christianity and Islam was undoubtedly the least violent as it spread in ancient times by convincing arguments and not by force. It is not a belief system that demands blind belief in dogmas and the suspension of one’s intelligence. On the contrary, Hinduism encourages using one’s intelligence to the hilt. The rishis enquired into truth, discovered universal laws and showed how to live life in an ideal way. Hinduism (please don’t get irritated by this ’modern’ word. In today’s world it is in use for the many streams of Sanatana Dharma) comprises a huge body of ancient literature, not only regarding Dharma and philosophy, but also regarding music, architecture, dance, science, astronomy, economics, politics, etc. If Germany or any other western country had this kind of literary treasure, it would be so proud and highlight its greatness on every occasion.Yet we Germans have to be content with only one ‘ancient’ epic which was written around 800 years ago and probably refers to incidents around 400 AD. That is how far back ‘antiquity’ reaches in Europe, and of course children in Germany hear of this epic, called ‘Nibelungenlied’, in school. Naturally westerners consider the existence of Sri Krishna and Sri Rama as myths. How could they acknowledge a civilization much more ancient and much more refined than their own?
Inexplicably, Indians cater to western arrogance and ignorance by downplaying and even denying their tradition. There is a “Copernicus Marg’ in New Delhi and Indian children do not get to hear in school that the rishis of the Rg Veda knew already that the earth is round and goes around the sun – thousands of years before westerners ‘discovered’ it. (Rg 10’22’14)
When I read some Upanishads, I was stunned at the profundity. Here was expressed in clear terms what I intuitively had felt to be true, but could not have expressed clearly. Brahman is not partial; it is the invisible, indivisible essence in everything. Everyone gets again and again a chance to discover the ultimate truth and is free to choose his way back to it. Helpful hints are given but not imposed.

In my early days in India, I thought that every Indian knew and valued his tradition. Slowly I realized that I was wrong. The British colonial masters had been successful in not only weaning away many of the elite from their ancient tradition but even making them despise it. It helped that the ‘educated’ class could no longer read the original Sanskrit texts and believed what the British told them. This lack of knowledge and the brainwashing by the British education may be the reason why many ‘modern’ Indians are against anything ‘Hindu’. They don’t realize the difference between western religions that have to be believed (or at least professed) blindly, and which discourage if not forbid their adherents to think on their own and the multi-layered Hindu Dharma which gives freedom and encourages using one’s intelligence.

Many of the educated class do not realize that on one hand, westerners, especially those who dream to impose their own religion on this vast country, will applaud them for denigrating Hindu Dharma, because this helps western universalism to spread in India. On the other hand, many westerners, including Church people, very well know the value and surreptitiously appropriate insights from the vast Indian knowledge system, drop the original source and present it either as their own or make it look as if these insights had been known in the west.

Rajiv Malhotra of Infinity Foundation has done painstaking research in this field and has documented many cases of “digestion” of Dharma civilization into western universalism. Hindu civilization is gradually being depleted of its valuable, exclusive assets and what is left is dismissed as inferior.

If only missionaries denigrated Hindu Dharma, it would not be so bad, as they clearly have an agenda which discerning Indians would detect. But sadly, Indians with Hindu names assist them because they wrongly believe that Hinduism is inferior to western religions. They belittle everything Hindu instead of getting thorough knowledge. As a rule, they know little about their tradition except what the British told them, i.e. that the major features are caste system and idol worship. They don’t realize that India would gain, not lose, if it solidly backed its profound and all inclusive Hindu tradition. The Dalai Lama said some time ago that already as a youth in Lhasa, he had been deeply impressed by the richness of Indian thought. “India has great potential to help the world,” he added. When will the westernized Indian elite realize it?

Click here for Maria’s blog

79 Comments

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79 responses to “When Germany is Christian, is India Hindu?

  1. The thoughts and insights provided by Maria Wirth are excellent and incisive.

  2. Madam Maria,
    You need to learn a lot more about the Hindus and India, before you can lecture them. But if you wanted to write an essay for your school magazine that’s ok.

    • cnm

      @cynical

      It would have been better if you, while asking Maria to enhance her knowledge about the Hindus, had suggested the ways how she can enhance her knowledge about Hindus and India . Beside, it would have been interesting if you had pointed out the shortcomings that the article suffers vis-a-vis knowledge about Hindus and India. Why don’t you lend your vaaaaast knowledge about Hindu and India to Maria?

      • nitha

        @cynical
        AND ALSO TELL TO MADAM MARIA THAT HER FELLOW CHRISTIANS ARE PROPAGATING LIES LIKE:

        Dravidian are the real son of the soil and Christianity is the original religion ,culture and tradition of India,and so” India is for Christ. ”
        THEY HAVE INTRODUCED A FAKE IDEOLOGY THAT IS “DRAVIDIAN CHRISTIANITY “TO BREAK INDIA INTO MUTUAL HOSTILE CAMPS After spreading hatred among North Indian and South Indians .
        So,this is the propaganda of Christian Missionaries. For India Christianity is merely a colonial tool and Missionaries are little more than imperial agents.

        The war is on .The war between a deadly cocktail ideology and on the other side unity and integrity of India as well as the liberty;
        the very air we are breathing.

      • @cnm
        I would have loved to do that. But her case is a little complicated in a sense that she has already been poisoned with lot of gibberish. So in her case she has to un-learn a lot before she sets her feet on the road to LEARNING. It’s less understood by most people that ‘un-learning’ is way more difficult than ‘learning’.

        • cnm

          @cynical

          Oh really!!!!!!
          So you want to say me that something is not gibberish so long as it conforms to your frame of reference. By the way, kindly specify the portions that make the article gibberish. Also, give an idea by what way they could have stopped from being gibberish ? Give your rebuttal to them.

          • cnm

            @cynical
            “I would have loved to do that. But her case is a little complicated in a sense that she has already been poisoned with lot of gibberish.”

            So you fight shy of doing complicated things. But look at us and try take inspiration from us. We know that you have been completely brainwashed by anti-Hindu propaganda still we have not given up the idea of transforming you from an incorrigible anti-Hindu into a Hindu nationalist. Isn’t it praiseworthy?

    • Dharma

      Madam Maria, You are no doubt blind and “cynical” about truth and life.

  3. S

    School magazine material Cynical ? One really has to laugh at your church given intelligence.

    The catholic church has started giving Hindu names to it’s new converts, after looking at the success of Prannoy (James) Roy and his niece Arundhati (Suzanne) Roy. Just as the cult of catholicism adopted a lot of ancient European Pagan customs and hijacked them for it’s own, now the emphasis is on hijacking Hindu customs and gods and calling them parts of the christian cult.

  4. Makarand Sane

    I am sure Ms. Maria has wrtitten this article before the Asaram bapu raped a minor girl from his devotee’s family.The hinduism is full of filth,idol worshipping, dick worshipping(Shiva-Lingam) ,snake,donley,monkey and elephant worshipping. Hinduism is also about indulging in sex by deceipt. It is a normal practice in hinduism. A very good example is of “Sati Ahilya” who was very beautiful. Hindu God Indra had a lust for Ahilya ,but she was loyal to her husband(Rishi gautam). So Indra first disgised as a roaster and because of his noise ,gautam rishi thout that it would have been the morning and woke up and went to the river to take bath. Seeign this ,indra then diguised as Gautam rishi,and had sex with Ahilya. When real Guatam rishi came back,he came to know what could have happend by his intituion and cursed Indra that he woudl have tousands of holes ito his body(in today’s modern world this disease is called as Gannorhea ,a kind of sexually transmitted disease). This is the essence of Hinduism. I shoudl not say anythign else about Lord Krishna who used to collect the bra of the Gops having bath in th erive and hide on the tree on the banks of the river and enjoy this pornography….these idiots zealots treat all such sex perverts as their GODs……..These assholes have no future..they are born as slave and they will die as slave……

    • Anonymous

      @ (in)Sane

      I do not know if Maria knows all those things that you know but I am sure that you have gained this your perverted knowledge of Hinduism from your mother who is regularly fucked by anti-Hindus.

      • @Anonymous
        Which of the stories that @Makarand Sane has mentioned, you consider as not true? Or it hurts, because you know that they are true.

        • Sindhus

          @Cynical & Sane:

          This blog has several fantastic stories about Mohammed and Ayesha and about “fathers” and “Nuns” and hundreds of sleazy parts from the Bible and Koran.

          Your responses warrant the reproduction of those here, but that would divert readers away from the superb eye-opening piece that Maria has written here.

          It is clear that Sane and Cynical are hurt because everything mentioned there is true and mocks at their choice of selling their religion and that of their forefathers.

          Those who cannot return to Hinduism even after reading Maria’s piece are cowards and fanatic anti-Hindus.

        • Anonymous

          @cynical

          I will come to that before that you just answer the comment of cnm given above. You must learn the art of answering before you want others to do that.

    • @Makarand Sane
      You are as much ignorant about Hinduism as those who believe in those stories you have mentioned. For a start Hinduism is not a religion as religion is understood in the rest of the world. It is a collection of many different (sometime even contradictory) threads of philosophical discourse, and also includes countless stories that were told by generations of sages to their disciples in furtherance of mass education in both temporal and spiritual life. One must differentiate between what is ‘folklore and myth’ and what is ‘phylosophy’.
      It’s perfectly in order to question and debate some, or even all those philosophical arguments. But picking on third rate novels (like those books where you found those stories) will not prepare you for that. You will remain as ignorant about Hinduism (using the word only in popular sense, though I hate this word because of its abuse by both its enemies and so-called saviours) as those who worship those characters as god.

      • Shlok

        @Makarand Insane continued, as I said you people act very smart. You try to exit from your bloody heritage by saying that church excesses were only committed by Catholics. That is false. The settlers who populated the US and Canada hailed primarily from Protestant nations. All are aware that all ancestors of today’s Protestants, including the crazy evangelists of US, were the same persons who massacred the native Indians. Now, let us see what kind of person the grandfather of all Protestants – Martin Luther – was
        @
        Martin Luther was an anti-semite. He hated the Jews.

        In 1543, Luther wrote ‘On the Jews and Their Lies’ (German: Von den Juden und ihren Lügen), in which he advocated harsh persecution of the Jewish people.

        Luther wrote that Jews are devils, blasphemers, and liars who “lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it,” a “miserable, blind and senseless” people, “nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury.” (On the Jews and Their Lies (Martin Luther) – The Wikipedia Review)

        Luther seemed to support adultery. Luther said that a woman had the right to take on a lover, if her husband wasn’t able to satisfy her in bed. ( Martin Luther . Cheat’s Guide PBS)

        Luther could be crude. He is reported to have shouted at the devil: “I have shit in my pants, and you can hang them around your neck and wipe your mouth with it.” Luther believed he could drive the devil away “with a single fart.” (Wallace et.al., The Intimate Sex Lives of Famous People: p281 Rejection of Pascal’s Wager: Martin Luther)

        Luther wanted witches to be killed. Luther declared that a possessed child should be thrown into the river to be killed or cured. (Robertson, History of Christianity: p208 Rejection of Pascal’s Wager: Martin Luther)

        Luther could be considered a fascist. He supported Serfdom.

        Luther encouraged the nobles to suppress the 1525 Peasant’s Revolt in Germany by violent means. And in fact the nobles tortured and then killed over 100,000 peasants.

        Luther wrote: “Let all who are able, cut them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel.” (Rejection of Pascal’s Wager: Martin Luther)

        To Luther, the abolition of Serfdom was “against the gospels”.

        http://nona-people.blogspot.hk/2007/08/martin-luther-was-fascist.html

        Further read Luther’s comments about women:

        Martin Luther discussed breasts: “which are an ornament to women if they are well proportioned. Large and flabby breasts cause unhappiness, it was said, because they promise much but produce little. Firm breasts, and even the small ones of tiny women, are fruitful and can provide milk for many children.” [No. 4105; Luther was 55]
        ohhh he was really naugthy wasn’t he?

        He quoted Holy Scriptures to enlighten us about women: “When Job criticized his wife he called her foolish; although women are foolish for the most part…’” [No. 2938b; Luther was 49]

        Read also,

        Martin Luther on women

        If you don’t think that Martin Luther was a nitwit, you will in a minute. For he wrote:

        Women are created for no other purpose than to serve men and be their helpers. If women grow weary or even die while bearing children, that doesn’t harm anything. Let them bear children to death; they are created for that.

        Another of his nitwit-proving declarations:

        It is commonly the nature of women to be timid and to be afraid of everything. This is why they busy themselves so much about witchcraft and superstition. One teaches the other, so that it is impossible to tell what kind of hocus-pocus they practice.

        (The first quote is from page17, the second from 252, of Women and Gender in Early Modern Europe, 3rd edition, by Merry E. Wiesner-Hanks. Cambridge University Press. 2008.)
        For a brief biography of Martin Luther, click here. For a brief biography of Merry E. Wiesner-Hanks, click here. For images of and relating to Merry E. Wiesner-Hanks, click here.
        http://www.comesaunter.com/2010/07/martin-luther-on-women.html

    • raj

      @Makarand Sane
      Biblical God :as per holy books
      Biblical God massacred all first-born babies – Exodus , 12/29
      Biblical God killed the Jews by sending ‘fiery serpents’ – Numbers, 21/6
      Biblical God got the Jews swallowed alive by the earth – Numbers, 16/32,33
      Biblical God burnt alive 250 Jews – Numbers, 16/35
      Biblical God threatens to kill children of Jews by wild beasts – Leviticus, 26/22
      Biblical God killed 70,000 Jews by pestilence – I Chronicles, 21/14
      Biblical God killed 50,070 men for looking into His box – I Samuel, 6/19
      BIBLICAL GOD CREATES CONFLICT
      Biblical God : ‘I came not for peace, but a sword.’ – Matthew, 10/34
      Biblical God’s mission : to create rift in family – – Matthew, 10/35
      BIBLICAL GOD IS WRATHFUL
      Blood oozed and flowed up to level of horse bridles – Revelation, 14/19,20
      BIBLICAL VERDICT OF DEATH PENALTY
      Death penalty by stoning for blasphemy – – Leviticus, 24/16
      Death penalty for straying near Tabernacle – Numbers, 1/51
      Death penalty for not observing holiday (sabbath) – Exodus, 31/14, Exodus, 35/2
      Death penalty for disobeying parents – Deuteronomy, 21/18-21
      Death penalty for cursing parents – Exodus, 21/17
      Death penalty for homosexuality – Leviticus, 20/13
      Death penalty for sexual intercourse with a woman during her menstruation period
      – Leviticus, 20/18
      Death penalty for loss of virginity – Deuteronomy, 22/20,21
      Death penalty for adultery – Leviticus, 20/10
      DENIGRATION OF WOMEN IN BIBLE
      Biblical God curses all women – Genesis, 3/16
      Woman was created for man, not man for woman – I Corinthians, 11/8,9
      Christ is the head of man, but not of woman – I Corinthians, 11/3
      Women must remain under domination of men – I Timothy, 2/11-14 , Ephesians, 5/24
      Submission of wives to husbands – Colossians, 3/18
      Women not permitted to speak in Churches – I Corinthians 14/34,35
      Woman, not man, must cover her head during prayer – I Corinthians, 11/4-6
      Test for unfaithful wife by making her drink bitter water – Numbers 5/20 -22 & 27
      Biblical law of divorce humiliates woman – Deuteronomy, 24/1 -4
      OBSCENE EPISODES IN BIBLE
      Noah drank wine and remained naked – Genesis, 9/20 -25
      Reuben’s sexual intercourse with his father’s concubine – Genesis, 35/22
      Onan’s sexual intercourse with his brother’s wife – Genesis, 38/8 -10
      Judah’s sexual intercourse with his widowed daughter-in-law – Genesis, 38/13 -18
      Biblical God caused his prophet Isaiah to walk stark naked for three years – Isaiah, 20/2 – 4
      Castration recommended by Jesus Christ – Matthew, 19/12
      The daughters’ sexual intercourse with their father – Genesis, 19/32 -38
      Lot offers his two daughters to a riotous mob of sodomites – Genesis, 19/8
      The prophet Abram’s illicit connection with maid servant – Genesis, 16/3 -6 & 16
      The prophet Abram marries his sister – Genesis, 20/12
      Abram, the prophet, barters his wife’s honour – Genesis, 12/11 -16 & Genesis, 20/14,16
      Abandonment of women was a covenant with God! – Ezra, 10/3
      David locked up ten concubines – II Samuel, 20/3
      Moses : Keep alive virgins for your enjoyment and kill non-virgins – Numbers, 31/17 ,18,32,35,40
      Sale of daughters for sexual gratification – Exodus, 21/7,8
      Killing male enemies, and marrying their females – Deuteronomy, 21/10 – 14 & Deuteronomy, 20/13,14
      Treat for giving one’s wife to other – 2 Samuel – 12 -11
      God helped david to get wife of others – 2 Samuel – 12 -8
      BIBLE : TORTURE NON-BELIEVERS
      Torture non-believers, but don’t hurt trees – Revelation, 9/4
      Don’t kill non-believers, but torture them – Revelation, 9/5
      BIIBLE PREACHES ATROCIOUS INTOLERANCE
      Kill your own brother and son, if they entice you to serve other gods – Deuteronomy, 13/6 -10
      Kill all non-believers of your town – Deuteronomy, 17/2-5
      Slaughter of infants and ripping of pregnant women – Hosea, 13/16
      Killing infants by stoning – Psalms, 137/9
      Peaceful citizens of Laish massacred -Judges, 18/27
      Kill each being that breathes – Deuteronomy, 20/16
      BIBLICAL GOD DEMANDS SACRIFICE OF ANIMALS
      Biblical God demands sacrifice of cattle from Israel’s children through Moses – Leviticus, 1/1,2
      Sprinkling of bullock’s blood on the altar – Leviticus, 1/5
      FLESH-EATING IN BIIBLE
      Holy Bible does not forbid flesh-eating. According to Bible, one can eat the flesh of ruminating animals, which have cloven (cleft or cracked) hoof and chew the cud.
      – Leviticus, 11/3,7,9,21
      HUMAN SACRIFICE IN BIBLE
      Human beings etc. once offered for sacrifice, will surely be killed – Leviticus, 27/28,29
      Offering of all first-born babies into fire – Ezekiel, 20/26
      Offering of calves and first-born human babe – Micah, 6/6,7
      Jephthah burnt his only daughter, as an offering to God – Judges, 11/35,36
      David sacrificed seven sons of Saul to stop famine – II Samuel, 21/1,6,9
      Biblical God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his only son – Genesis, 22/2,10,13
      STRAIN OF CANNIBALISM IN BIBLE
      Cannibalism means ‘the practice of eating human flesh’. A strain of cannibalism in Holy Bible. – Jeremiah, 19/9 , Lamentations, 4/10 , II Kings, 6/28,29 , John, 6/53 , Deuteronomy, 28/53 , Leviticus, 26/29
      UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE IN BIBLE
      Use of the word ‘bastard’ for non-believers – Hebrews, 12/7,8
      Use of the word ‘dogs’ for men – Philippians, 3/2
      Lifting the skirt of an women – Nahum 03 – 05
      UNSCIENTIFIC TEACHINGS IN BIBLE
      The sky has windows – Genesis, 7/11
      The earth has foundations, pillars and four corners! – Psalms, 104/5
      The Earth has pillars – I Samuel, 2/8
      The Earth has four corners – Revelation, 7/1
      The sun, not the earth, moves ! – Joshua, 10/13
      Is disease caused by devil ? – Lake, 4/33,35 , Mark, 1/34
      Can a sick be cured by priest or doctor ? – James, 5/14
      BIBLE CONDEMNS KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM AND PHILOSOPHY
      Bible condemns knowledge – Genesis, 2/17
      Bible condemns wisdom – I Corinthians, 3/19
      Bible condemns philosophy – Colossians, 2/8
      BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF DAMNATION FOR NON-CHRISTIANS
      Non-believers fit to be burnt in fire – John, 15/6
      Christ’s doctrine of damnation for disbelievers – Mark, 16/16, Matthew, 23/33
      Salvation is possible only through Christ – John, 10/7 -9, John, 14/6, John, 11/25,26,
      Matthew, 12/30
      No salvation for rich men – Matthew, 19/23,26
      BIBLE ESTABLISHES SLAVERY
      Slaves are permanent possession to be inherited by future children – Leviticus, 25/44-46
      Biblical judgments regarding slaves – Exodus, 21/1 -6
      The New Testament also sanctions slavery – Timothy 1, 6/1 ,- Titus, 2/9,10 ,Ephesians, 6/5,6 , Peter 1, 2/18
      BIBLICAL GOD BREAKS AND BURNS IDOLS
      Biblical God orders His followers to destroy the aliens’ altars, break their images, cut down their groves and bum their carved idols in fire – Deuteronomy, 7/5
      BIBLICAL GOD IS JEALOUS AND VINDICTIVE
      Biblical God is jealous – Exodus, 20/5
      Biblical God is vindictive – Nahum, ½
      TYRANNICAL VOICE OF BIBLICAL GOD
      Is Biblical God, a God of Love ? – Leviticus, 26/25
      Sword without and terror within – Deuteronomy, 32/25
      Killing by teeth of beasts and poison of serpents – Deuteronomy, 32/24
      Massacre of children due to bias of their fathers – Isaiah, 14/21
      BUTCHERY BY ‘BIBLICAL MEN OF GOD’
      Massacre by David
      David put the people under saws ! – II Samuel, 12/31
      David butchered 200 men ! -I Samuel, 18/27
      Massacre by Jehu, the king and prophet
      Jehu, the king and prophet, slew all, leaving none as alive – II Kings, 10/11
      Massacre by Joshua
      Joshua, the successor of Moses, butchered all that breathed – Joshua, 10/30,32,36,37,40
      Massacre by Elijah, the prophet
      Elijah, the prophet, slew all 450 priests, spared none – I Kings, 18/40
      Massacre by Samuel, the prophet
      Samuel, the prophet, slew Agag in pieces – I Samuel, 15/33
      Massacre by Moses
      Moses slaughtered even innocent children – Deuteronomy, 2/34
      Massacre by Elisha, the prophet
      Elisha, the prophet, butchered 42 little children – II Kings, 2/23,24

      • karan

        @Makarand Sane & Cynical
        Which of the stories that @raj has mentioned, you consider as not true? Or it hurts, because you know that they are true.

      • Harish

        @raj
        You are as much ignorant about Christianity as those who believe in those stories you have mentioned. For a start Christianity is not a religion as religion is understood in the rest of the world. It is a collection of many different (sometime even contradictory) threads of philosophical discourse, and also includes countless stories that were told by generations of sages to their disciples in furtherance of mass education in both temporal and spiritual life. One must differentiate between what is ‘folklore and myth’ and what is ‘phylosophy’.
        The real Jesus, Yeshua, spoke against traditional religion and promoted spirituality. He worked to heal people’s fears of being separated from God. He spoke the message of the Kingdom being at hand and within each and every person. Yeshua taught people to love and never promoted fearful ideas, such as suffering in an eternal Hell. The problem of Christianity are fundamentalist and missionaries who spoils the world.
        Today’s Christian doctrines falsely promote that Jesus taught on Condemning other religions, Division, Original Sin, Bible is the word of God, He as a blood Sacrifice for human Sins, Trinity, He has to be worshipped in Church, and to establish Religion in his name.

        Jesus’ teaching has been twisted by mistakenly interpreting his parables literally instead of metaphorically. Fearful Christian doctrines were formed and the Bible is used as a method of enforcing erroneous teaching.

        Jesus taught that we should love all, and we are connected. He was always against division. He never spoke that we were born inherently bad or sinful, but eternal.

        According to him, Hell is a state of mind, not a place. He never advised to follow the Bible (the Old Testament) and asked disciples to write New Testament on his teachings. Jesus was against Jew’s blood sacrifice and against the idea of religion.

        • Krishna

          A persuasive argument against the ONE true god of the Abrahamic faiths is offered by French Indologist Alain Danielou in Hindu Polytheism (1964):

          “A supreme cause has to be beyond number, otherwise Number would be the First Cause. But the number one, although it has peculiar properties, is a number like two, or three, or ten, or a million. If ‘God’ is one, he is not beyond number any more than if he is two or three or ten or a million.’’

        • Krishna

          The great pre-Christian civilizations of Greece and Rome had no religious wars and had a far healthier view of their frolicking gods and goddesses than the intolerant monotheistic Christianity that later came to dominate Europe
          As concerns the United States, militant Christianity is clearly in ascendance, indeed it has one of its own in the White House. According to a recent Pew survey, 15, 14 and 20% of the U.S. population said they would have reasons not to vote for a presidential candidate who was Catholic, Jewish or Evangelical Christian.
          However, when that candidate was an atheist, the percentage, at 41%, was substantially higher. This is extremely worrying and does not portend well for the future. While it would seem that religious Americans are more tolerant as concerns their respective religions, they remain brazenly intolerant of atheists.
          .

          Perhaps rather than eradicating religion per se, we
          should instead eradicate monotheistic religion in favor of polytheistic religion.
          If you have only one god, and you believe that god is all powerful and omniscient, and you come across someone who does not agree, then you may feel it is your duty to kill him.
          If, on the other hand, you believe there are hundreds, indeed thousands of gods, and that none can be totally almighty or omniscient, then you are likely to be far more tolerant. Polytheistic religions also tend to have a far more positive and healthier attitude to sex, which is seen as a good thing, than do the monotheistic faiths, where there is a much stronger tendency to equate sex with sin
          http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?StoryId=5211

          • ravi

            “PRAISE THE LORD” is really a WAR CRY SLOGAN of christian CRUSADERS who raised this slogan when they were RAPING AND KILLING muslims and Jews women and men.“Allah Hoo Akbar”, was war cry when Muslims raped and killed Hindus.

            Abrahamics are worst of creatures.

        • Krishna

          There is a problem with Christians, Mohammedans, Jews, who think of God as a person — there is a problem.
          They think God is the one who created the world.
          In the East we have a deeper understanding of God than that.
          Creation is not something separate from God: it is His play; it is He Himself hiding in many forms. Here He has become a rock, there He has become a flower. Here He is a sinner and there He is a saint. The whole play is His.
          And He is the only actor and He goes on dividing His roles.
          He is in Jesus and He is in Judas.
          In the East, God is not a person — God is the very stuff the universe is made of.
          God is not a creator — God is creativity.
          And the creator and the creation are just two aspects of the same creative energy.

      • @raj
        Badhai ho, bhaijan. Kya badiya list banaya. Aapne toh saare Ishai ko dhul chata diya. But brother @raj you forgot to mention Jesus together with his four brothers pumping the same woman, each one claiming her as his wife. Genesis 91/23 – 83
        Yeh kissa upko ‘Maha-Israel’ kitab mein bhi mil jayega.

        • shankar

          We do not KNOW in which it was written i.e. your ‘Maha-Israel’ kitab
          BUT WE KNOW Hinduism is not simply a grand version of Native Pagan/Ancestor Worship as is done by aborgines, native American Indians and some African Tribes AND SOME TRIBES OF INDIAN IT IS STILL IN
          PRACTICE.

        • shankar

          @Cynical
          “End Polygamy, Muslim woman pleas with SC (Supreme Court)” the Times of India reported in 2001 that the women’s lawyer Lily Thomas had argued “The custom and usage of polygamy and extra-judicial divorce allowed to be practiced by Muslims is a denial of equality, personal liberty and human rights guaranteed to all citizens by Articles 14, 15 and 21 of the Constitution… [she asked the court to declare that] polygamy practiced by Muslim community is illegal, unconstitutional and void to be simultaneously substituted by monogamy.” Despite the pleas, the court did not reverse the Muslim Personal Law and its acceptance of Polygamy.

        • raj

          “Polyandry” was mainly prevalent in the” Kinnaur” Region a part of Himachal in India which is close to the Tibet or currently the Indo-China border. As mentioned in the Epic Mahabharata, The Pandavas were banished from their Kingdom for thirteen years and they spent the last year hiding in this hilly terrain of Kinnaur. A minority of the Kinaauri’s still claim to be descendant of the Pandavas and thus justify the practice of Polyandry. However this is a debatable issue as Kinnauris existed much before the Pandavas as mentioned in the epic. Apart from Kinnaur, Polyandry was practiced by some south Indian tribes, prevalent among the “Todas of Nilgiris”,” Nairs of Travancore “and “Ezhavas of Malabar.” While polyandrous unions have disappeared from the traditions of many of the groups and tribes, it is still practiced by some Paharis especially in “Jaunsar Bawar region in Northern India”.

          Recent years, have seen the rise in fraternal polyandry in the agrarian societies in” Malwa region of Punjab” to avoid division of farming land

        • Raj

          @Cynical the Baptist
          Carry on to abuse Hinduism, so we could laugh on you ,and read our answer with broken heart.

    • Indian Realist

      Hey convert dude, you are yet to tell us why having sex is bad. This guilt about getting erections or orgasms is a peculiar phenomenon found only in monotheism. In Hinduism, sex is something that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is considered a normal human urge, and a very pleasurable one at that, just like itching or eating or shitting or breathing. So tell us again: Why is having sex bad, and why should we hang our heads in shame if we get an erection?

      • shankar

        @Indian Realist
        Well said.

      • @Indian Realist
        I agree with you, for once. In Hinduism, sex is nothing to be ashamed of. That’s why the upper caste Hindus always enjoyed having sex with women of lower caste and Hindustan became rapistan.

        • cnm

          @cynical

          Why don’t you supply a list of upper caste Hindus enjoy having sex with lower caste Hindus ?

          • @cnm
            Do you have to respond to every post of mine? It might surprise you, but I do have respect for your intelligence, though not for your opinion. You can help me by keeping quiet on issues where you know that truth is not on your side. The exploitation of lower caste Hindus (including their women) by the upper caste Hindus is as old as Hindustan and its history would need tons and tons of paper to be chronicled. As a hint I advice you to go back in memory for 32 odd years and look at the Behmai massacre (Phoolan devi fame) in 1981. That will give you an insight of the caste equation in India since time immemorial. No one is asking you to appologise, but just saying sorry can mend many a broken heart.

            • cnm

              @cynical

              Thank you for appreciating my intelligence.You know that the truth is always on our side.I have very little knowledge about Phoolan Devi. But for the sake of argument let me accept your story on Phoolan Devi. But so far as I understand the story supplied by you,I believe that it was the base instincts and nothing else in the oppressors of Phoolan Devi that prompted them to maul and ill-treat Phoolan. There is nothing called high caste-low caste animosity in that. I also know innumerable incidents where low caste people have severely assaulted and ill-treated the high caste people. But I have never tried to find a low caste-High caste animosity in them. It is because I have not worn any ideological glasses like you have worn which is in your case leftist. Lastly, the story of Phoolan Devi, even if true, does not make a list. Does it?

              • shankar

                @Cynical
                And story of Phoolan Devi, even if true
                BUT WHAT HAPPENED AFTER
                The state government, in a controversial act, withdrew all cases against her, and Devi, who had remained in jail for 11 years during the pendency of the trials, was released. She then contested elections as a candidate of the Samajwadi Party, whose government had withdrawn the cases against her, and was elected to parliament. In 2001.
                The 1994 film Bandit Queen was based on her life.
                That will give you insight of the social justice in India since time immemorial. We asking you to give more incidents, and we want to give you more insight of the social justice in India that will remembered by you with broken heart.

            • Shlok

              @Cynical, I am from UP. So I have done my homework better than you as far as dacoits are concerned. No one from the Mallah community in our village takes any pride in Phoolan Devi. And we are not interested in the bunkum of lower caste exploitation which produced Phoolan Devi. Kushma Nain and Sunita Pandey are also female dacoits who also turned dacoits due to exploitation but mind you both were upper castes

              • Shlok

                @Cynical, on the other hand Baba Gujjar the gang leader of Phoolan Devi, whom she and her lover killed, also belonged to a backward caste. Stop this nonsense of caste angle. Maan Singh, who lived with Phoolan Devi after Vikram Mallah, was a Yadav whereas Yadavs and Mallahs normally don’t get along

              • cnm

                @shlok

                Great response and valubale information about phoolan devi. Before you made your comments I had simply no knowledge about phoolan. Despite that I was never a taker of the theory of caste conflict being the reason behind Phoolan’s initiation into dacaoity. I belong to one of the remotest villages in orissa which is fortunately one of the least tainted villages so far as modernism is concerned. Naturally, therefore, the old institution of caste still exists there with some of its pristine glories still intact. I am a part and parcel of that society here and is an eye witness to everything concerning the life and activities of the people here.So being an intricate part of the society and someone who lives Hinduism in his daily life I think I can claim on the basis of my personal experience that I know better about the institution of caste –its functioning and dynamics–than theses Arundhotis, Bidwais and other such scholars know. In the last 30 years of my life which I have spent in my village I have never, yes never, come across anything that can remotely hint at the existence of any caste conflicts or caste discrimination or caste animosity among the people of various castes living here. On the contrary, there is not a single celebration, both religious and social, in our village where all the villagers irrespective of their caste never take part. In fact caste never plays a barrier in the celebration of these programmes but helps facilitate in its successful and joyous culmination. If this is the case in my village it must be more or less the case in every other village in India owing its allegiance to Hinduism. Hence, why should I buy the spurious stories spread by anti-Hindus which are meant only to give Hindus and Hinduism a bad name.

                • Shlok

                  @Cnm, thanks for enlightening us about Orissa. I think that we 2 are representatives of village life in India. Arm chair ‘intellectuals’ like Cynical, who have never been to a village and only read about the villages from persons like Arundhati Roy and Barkha Dutt have no right to speak about life in the villages.

                  • Shlok

                    @Cnm continued, these persons believe that village life is only about caste discrimination. I do not know if Cynical is a Hindu or not, but if he is, he is definitely more dangerous and damaging than Muslims or Christians. These persons fail to understand the mind of a rapist, who rape women because they are women, what has the women’s caste got to do with it? In 1996, Delhi’s famous rape victim was a Kashmiri Pundit, Priyadarshini Muttooo. But these insane persons want us to believe that a rapist will first ask the woman, ‘Exuse me which caste do you belong to’?

            • Shlok

              @Cynical, so interested in Phoolan Devi, ah? Can you please tell me 1) who first sent her to prison? 2) How did she become a dacoit?
              Besides that, what right did Phoolan Devi have to massacre the 21 Thakurs? It is just politicians from my community with vested interests who got her free. I am ashamed of her. Check any Mallah website and we take great pride in claiming our ancestry from Raja Nishad and Kewat from Ramayana and Satyavati from Mahabharat. We love all Hindus no matter Brahmins or who. Chapter close

              • Shlok

                @Cynical, and besides what right do you have to worry about us ‘low castes’. Last week, you had made a very offensive remark against us. Now compare it with Hindus over here. Has anyone made me feel that I as a member of ‘low caste’ have no place here. It is only a Commie like you who made such gisgusting remarks and did not even bother to apologize

        • Sindhus

          Upper caste Muslims held lower caste muslims captive for sadistic pleasure, upper caste Christians regularly exploit lower caste Christians in India and everywhere, in fact that is one of the main motivations of “preachers” – to convert people and consider the neo converts as ignorant and exploit them and everyone in their family forever…all in Lord’s name!

          • @Sindhus
            Farq kya hai Sindhus saab. Hum Hindu log bhi to ladkion ko ched chad karta hoon Kishen maharaj ke naam leke. Dil pad hath rakhke batayen gopiyon ko nanga dekhne mein apko achchha nahi lagta kya?

            • Sindhus

              @Cynical:
              Cynical ji, farq agar nahin hain toh “Upper caste — Lower caste” ki baatein sirf Hinduism mein kyon jod rahen he aap? Ye exploitation sab jagah he, aur ho sakta he ki islam aur Xtianity mein zyaada ho, kyun ki yeh do kafi closed religions he.

              Aur rahi baat ched chad ki – I can again equally/worse insulting instances in other religions because your only aim seems to be to insult Hindus and their Gods. Joh author ne kaha he Germany ke bare mein aur apne desh ke bare mein woh kabile tareef he.

              • Sindhus

                @Cynical:

                To add for clarification, exploitation is always ‘rich to poor’, ‘powerful to weak’, and ‘Wicked to Pious’. It has got nothing to with caste.

                • @Sindhus
                  Since you admit that exploitation is always ‘rich to poor’, ‘powerful to weak’, and ‘Wicked to Pious’ then why gloat in bashing Muslims and Christians with examples that suits your naratives of hatred?

                  • Sindhus

                    @Cynical:

                    It is clear to everyone that you started this caste business to insult Hindu Gods and culture when Maria has written something different and very true. Why cant you admit that due to some narrow thinking of politicians it has become a crime to say that India is a Hindu country or that Hinduism is a beautiful religion? Is it not true that Hindus are immediately labelled as fanatics if they were saffron clothes or say Jai Shri Ram in India, but when others chant the name of Jesus and Allah they are called secular and pious? That’s the real point here.

                  • Sindhus

                    Moreover, you and many others think that casteism is (actually was) only in Hinduism, when bias is much worse in several other religions/countries/societies?

                    Maria has also written some startling things about forceful conversions in Germany. Why cant you appreciate this?

                  • Indian Realist

                    How is that a narrative of hatred? Hurling accusations non-stop to put the other party on the defensive is an old debating trick used by communists, Muslims and missionaries. In this, one party will keep accusing the other person of genocide, hatred, malevolence, etc. and the other person will keep defending himself, and after some time of this sequence, the accuser declares the debate to be over. This is a trick to ensure the other person never gets to ask questions from you or scrutinize your own position. I can identify this tactic easily in a debate.

                  • shankar

                    @Cynical
                    We admit that exploitation is always ‘rich to poor’, ‘powerful to weak’, and ‘Wicked to Pious’ by converting them with any hook and crook, with examples that suits our naratives of concern ?

            • ravi

              @Cynical
              Farq kya hai Cynical saab. Aaap Christian log bhi to ladkion ko ched chad karta hoon . Dil pad hath rakhke batayen Kishen maharaj ki galat kahani padke gopiyon ko nanga dekhne ki ichcha apko nahi hoti kya?

              • Sindhus

                Does anyone have the statistics of % of sexual offenders/criminals based on religions in India, state-wise, and also in different countries. By %, it means the number of offenders belonging to one particular religion compared to their population.

                I think it will clearly prove the patriotism, secularism, development, etc. in India and abroad. For example, I am sure such a % for Hindus in Pakistan will almost be zero and for Muslims in the UK will be quite high, probably more than Christians in the UK.

                If some can find this data, it would be great and also help defining secularism better.

        • Indian Realist

          Prophet used to hump a 9 year old girl, but that is permitted, isn’t it?

          • @Indian Realist
            No it’s not. Humping a 9 year old girl is as despicable as 5 men Pumping one woman in turn, like it happens during gang rape.

            • shankar

              @Cynical
              Humping 5 men Pumping one woman in turn, like it happens during gang rape and all were Prophet of five different religions !!!
              @Indian Realist
              We can share knowledge with Cynical about these newly born religions.

            • Shlok

              @Cynical, sorry sir, you have totally forgotten what the word rape means. Draupadi was the wife of the 5 Pandavas, never ever did she ever claim that she was a victim. if you know the Mahabharat, you will know that the 5 brothers had clear rules of when each of them would be with Draupadi. Besides that, yóu can’t have your cake and eat it. On the 1 hand, feminists say that man throught the ages have had so many wives, how come women dídn’t? But when the example of Draupadi comes that yes there is an incident where even women had 5 husbands, then the same feminists and secularists also decry it as abuse. As far as Ayesha was concerned, she was a minor and playing with dolls when she wed.

        • ravi

          @cynical
          You have not supplied a list of upper caste Hindus enjoy having sex with lower caste Hindus ,as per cnm’s demand ?
          But we have a long list to such type of discrimination committed by Christians world over.

    • Shlok

      @Makarand INSANE, I will answer you in several messages. The 1st one relates to the alleged rape of a girl by Asaram Bapu. How many such cases have you heard? And many of the cases have been blown over by a a sensational Hindu hating media, which as many reports have shown is heavily financed by Western and Islamic interests. Anyway, my 1st reply to you is how sex abuse and debauchery is so ingrained in the churches. I know the typical way that people choose to exit by saying that you are not Catholic, but Protestant or whatever. There are scores of articles that you can access, but I will just paste one of them which show how the problem is endemic to all kinds of churces

      @
      There is no shortage of news that reveals cases of sex abuse in the Catholic Church because mainstream media is diligently reporting these stories. However, there are other news stories that are just as serious and involve other faiths in which their clergy are sexually abusing children. For years, religious and victims’ rights organizations have been seeking church sex abuse data that includes all faiths, not just the Catholic.

      The Catholic Church Sex Abuse Stats

      Father Jonathan Morris is a Roman Catholic priest in New York City and he is also a news contributor for Fox News Channel. In a recent news story, “Father Jonathon” stated that heavy media scrutiny forced the Catholic Church to open the books on how many sex abuse cases there have been. Since 1950, 13,000 credible accusations were brought against Catholic priests; this averages 228 cases per year.

      Sex Abuse in Protestant Churches

      Three insurance companies in the United States that provide liability coverage for 165,000 Protestant churches revealed data to the Associated Press that they typically receive 260 reports every year of children being sexually abused by Protestant clergy or other staff.

      If these and the Catholic statistics are accurate, then on average, there are 32 more sex abuse cases per year in the Protestant church. As Father Jonathan stated in his news story, “The mainstream media has all but ignored the recent Associated Press report.”

      Anglican Sex Scandals

      In July 2003, LifeSiteNews reported that in South Australia, a police task force was established to investigate child sex abuse cases in the Anglican Church. The police task force identified more than 200 victims and there were 48 offenders arrested. Police stated that the number of victims could rise to more than 400 by the time all investigations are completed. The arrests happened following a controversy that forced Archbishop Ian George to resign just months before his scheduled retirement.

      Australia’s Anglican Church is no stranger to clergy pedophiles. In 2004, The Associated Press reported that Australia’s governor general, Peter Hollingworth, was disgraced in an Anglican Church inquiry that discovered he failed to take strong action against identified pedophiles in the church when he was a bishop in the early 1990s.

      Sex Abuse in the Jehovah Witnesses

      MSNBC reported in 2007 that the Jehovah Witnesses settled nine lawsuits that alleged their church policies gave protection to men who sexually abused children for numerous years.

      Frederick McLean is one of America’s most wanted fugitives and has been for several years. The 58 year old is charged with 17 counts of child sexual abuse in California. Police identified eight victims that have alleged continued abuse over a ten year period. One girl estimates she was molested over 100 times according to the U.S. Marshals Service.

      Mormon Sex Scandals

      In a Salt Lake Tribune 1999 article “Bringing Abuse to Light,” the reported stated that the Latter Day Saints Church experiences sexual abuse allegations just as most other religions do. The reporter stated that experts claim the incidence of child sex abuse in the church is the same as the rest of society.

      In this particular news story, it was revealed that the church reached confidential settlements in numerous lawsuits.

      As James Shelledy, Salt Lake Tribune reporter wrote, “..experts say that the incidence of child sexual abuse in the Church is the same as in the rest of society.” Mainstream news is not doing sex abuse victims of other faiths justice when the focus solely on the Catholic Church. Until society acknowledges that this is a serious crisis that affects all faiths, sexual abuse in all churches will continue for many years to come.

      Sources:

      Bringing Abuse to Light, Salt Lake Tribune, October 17, 1999

      New evidence in Jehovah’s Witness allegations, MSNBC.com, November 21, 2007

      Major Anglican Sexual Abuse Scandal in Australia, LifeSiteNews.com July 18, 2003

      Sexual Abuse of Minors in Protestant Churches, FoxNews.com, exact date unknown

      http://suite101.com/article/church-sex-abuse-scandals-are-not-just-a-catholic-crisis-a232196

    • Shlok

      @Makarand Insane continued, now please read this on sexual abuse of churches in India. If you are still not satisfied with the rot and malaise that ails in your churches, I can send you 100 more articles

      Sex predators of Christian Clergy and The Church Cover-up
      by Dr Babu Suseelan

      During the past several years, the mass media in Kerala has been awash with reports of Catholic priestly pedophilia, sex abuse of nuns by the clergy, nun suicide, and Church cover-up. The politically powerful Christian Church has been reluctant to admit that sexual abuse by the clergy is a widespread occurrence. Repeated media stories report accounts of both long-term and situational incidents of nuns being sexually abused by the clergy, murder of nuns, physical abuse of children in Christian management schools, sexual abuse of children in Bible Schools, ragging in colleges and violence against nuns. The consequences of sexual abuse are traumatic and long lasting. What is hard to accept is why the Church refuses to accept sex abuse by the clergy. Sex abuse by the clergy is a harsh reality, and the Church must understand what it is, know the factors-both physical and behavioral-that may indicate its existence, and be familiar with repeated occurrence.

      The general public is becoming more aware of the extent and nature of sex abuse by the priests. Nationally reported sensational trials of priestly sex abuse and murder have brought priestly deviance and Church cover-up into focused attention. The CBI investigation of the nun Abhaya murder trial, arrest of Catholic priests and supervisory nuns forced the public to confront sex abuse, murder, and the Church blame shift and cover-up. Nun Abhaya was murdered because she had witnessed priestly sex with her supervisory nuns and she spoke out against sex in the convent. Another nun Anupama had committed suicide allegedly unable to face sexual harassment by senior nuns. Another senior nun Jesme has written in detail in her autobiography about brutal, inhuman sex abuse by priests and nuns. She has reported experiences with sex abuse, attempted or actual rape, assault or violence. In spite of repeated cases of sex abuse, murder, suicide and assault, the Church has attempted “knee-jerk” reaction, cover-up or quick fixes for this emotionally charged serious problem. The Church with deep pockets and political muscle has been sabotaging high-profile cases. The widespread use of Church money and power has provided increased opportunities to provoke the impression of Christian prosecution. The political-money power of the Church prevents government from arresting, prosecuting and punishing dangerous Christian priests who are sex offenders. As a result, the police, the Judiciary and the government have been reluctant to investigate arrest or prosecute sex predators and deviant priests. The Churches are engaged in media manipulation, blame game and victim abuse. But the general public claim priestly sex abuse clearly exists and is more widespread than believed. Sex abuse by the Christian clergy creates anxiety and apprehension and present serious social problem. Several nuns have committed suicide and many others have become mentally sick.

      Most disturbing were the obvious predatory offenders who would, in open defiance, refuse to admit their sex crimes have been transferred to Europe and America. Several Christian priests from Kerala were arrested in the US for lewd, lascivious, or indecent assault and are serving long-term prison sentences.

      As a further influence towards sexual abuse in the Christian community, Biblical socio-cultural values that emphasize male dominance, interpersonal violence, negative values of women, and sexual exploitation of children influence sex abuse. Christian women have found that throughout the history of Christianity, the Bible has been used as a Christian scripture for sexual exploitation of women and children. The Christian scriptures contain story after story of violence against women (Genesis 34, 2 Samuel 13, Judges 19, and Daniel 13). Sexual discrimination against women is also derived from passages in the New Testament. “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, not to usurp authority over the man but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in child bearing if they continue in faith with sobriety.” (Timothy 2:11-15). “Righteous man tells horny neighbors to rape his virgin daughters instead of taking liberties with his male guests.” (Genesis 19:1-18). “Though shall not suffer a witch to live.” (Exodus: 18-22).”God Okays captured maidens to be used as wives on a trial basis.” (Deuteronom 21-10-14). “I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun.” (Bible God-2 Samuel 11-12). Thomas Paine in his “The Age of Reason” captures the essence of the Bible when he states; “whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind and for my part; I sincerely detest it, as I detest anything that is cruel.”

      While the blame must be nightly placed on the individual priests who committed the heinous sexual acts, society must not forget that it is the Christian religion that is also generally responsible. Besides the biggest crime of the silence concerning priestly sex predators, Christianity is also responsible for many other wrong around the world.

      The sex predators in the Church feel more protected since the Christian Churches have no policy to identify and restrict known sexual offenders among the clergy. The Churches in India have no policy or guidelines to identify priests having strong sexual propensities. There are several instances where Catholic Sunday school teachers, priests and school officials engaged in pedophile pattern of sexual misconduct in such an egregious nature that there is a substantial likelihood of serious physical or mental harm being inflicted on the victims. The Church holds that predatory sexual behavior does not constitute the kind of injury, pain, or other evil. The Church’s failure in addressing the sexual misconduct of the clergy amounts to ignoring substantial likelihood of serious physical or emotional harm to the victims. There are no mandatory reporting guidelines, sex abuse registration, community notification guidelines, uniform sex abuse reporting requirement, national incident-based reporting system, or any mechanism for national sex crime victimization survey in the Church in order to help Christian community feel safer. Given the criminal and public health significance of sex offenders among the Christian clergy, it is surprising how little has been done by the Church to acknowledge or to prevent such deviant acts. The powerful Churches have no means for measuring sex violence, assault, rape, attempted murder or murder by the clergy, as well as collecting data both prevalence rates (number of victims) or incidence rates (number of incidents). The government is under the political pressure from the Christian Churches and is unwilling to enact laws in an effort to restore a sense of safety and security to the community.

      Recently, the Churches have joined together and have formed several “divine treatment” centers for indoctrinating and accusing the victims of sex abuse. The Potta Divine Center near Angamali and the mistreatment of sex abuse victims has sparked considerable debate among Psychiatrists, legal experts, human rights activists. Questions have been raised regarding the legality of such Christian institutions and illegal and unethical treatment of sex abuse victims by the predator priests. The Church has detained many nuns who have been sexually assaulted or raped and labeled them as mentally sick. The labeling process of the victims is used for intimidation, coercive treatment, false imprisonment and to silence the sex abuse victims. These illegal detention centers operated by the Churches have been used for keeping things quiet in an attempt to do ‘damage control’. Hundreds of inmates at these centers have died under mysterious circumstances. Bad publicity has dictated an atmosphere of hushed voices and outrage against those who dare to speak out against illegal detention, forced treatment and sudden death of sex abuse victims.

      Law enforcement’s acknowledgement and response to clergy sex abuse has been slow in coming in Kerala. Even today, police officers would rather not get involved in crime, violence, sex abuse in the Church for fear of retaliation from the powerful Christian lobby.

      The media, professionals and the society in Kerala must accept the fact that victims of clergy sex abuse and victims of sexual harassment especially nuns have rights and need. The government must enact legislation to ensure financial rewards for sex abuse victims and financial independence from the perpetuators. Freedom of the Church to run religious schools and illegal treatment centers without government regulations must be subject to scrutiny. The consequences of sex abuse by the priests are traumatic and the ramifications are serious. Although there is disagreement among the Church hierarchy, all agree that sex abuse by the clergy is a serious problem that must be handled by the police and the judiciary effectively. The media must expose and educate the public against clergy sex abuse and use of women as sexual trophies or playthings instead of equals by the Church. Only through ongoing awareness campaign against the special Church privileges, priestly sex deviance and exploitation of nuns and such heinous sex crimes can be put to an end.

    • Shlok

      @Makarand Insane continued, of course if you are a Catholic then before you visit the church, make sure to read this book. Don’t worry when our country becomes a Hindu Rashtra, we will distribute this book free of charge to all. I am sure that Mr Cawthorne or his estate will give us a good discounted price for it

      @
      Sex Lives of the Popes Paperback

      Nigel Cawthorne (Author)
      The Popes have been responsible for setting the sexual agenda for almost a quarter of the world’s population for centuries. It was St Paul, scholars say, who set up the church’s strong anti-sex stance. Popes ever since have publicly praised the virtues of chastity and fidelity. But many may not have practised what they preached, and some may have been far more promiscuous than the most dissolute heathen. This is an irreverent expose of the Bishops of Rome, from St Peter to the 1990s, casting a humorous, yet historically accurate eye on the history of Papal infidelity. From the Borges to the Antipopes it unearths all the duplicity and scandal, including marriage, adultery, illegitimate children, homosexuality and pornography.

    • Shlok

      @Makarand Insane continued, now your comments about Hinduism are highly derogatory. But I am not shocked. As Vineet has correctly explained once a person leaves his ancestral faith, he is brainwashed by the missionaries to turn against his own heritage. Till yesterday, Ram and Krishna were your forefathers. But the moment you become Christian, then John and Paul become your ancestors. I am grateful to Atul Purandar Marathe who in a post told me that he and others had replied all these points about Lord Krishna and Lord Shiv. There is no point of mine pasting them again and using so much space. Please go to the blog, ‘Have Chrisitans in AP reached 19%’ and keep on going to older comments till you reach to the date of 2009, over there go all the way down and you will find a Christian ‘doctor’ Dr Philips who has kept on sending or challenging something from the Hindu scriptures, about Lord Krishna and Lord Shiv. And check the responses given by Atul Marathe, Bhushan, JGN, Nirmal Laungani, Vineet and others. It is amazing that while the Hindus have answered each and every point raised by Dr Philips, but when our Hindu brothers have raised evil points from the Bible, Dr Philips has not even replied. To not a single point. One might have thought that they may have answered 3 or 4 mails by saying that no our Christian religion is not like that, or like this. But no. Nothing. It clearly shows that your religion has no defense at all. It does seem that you have wasted your life by converting to it. As far as Indra is concerned, can you please tell me which community or region worships Indra today? Which are the principal temples to Indra? Mr Insane, stop your nonsense about our religion, otherwise believe me you are the one who is going to sufer. Persons like Cynical seem Marxist in their orientation, and that too he is gay, and a drunkard. For them, they may show sympathy with you but after all, for Marx ‘religion is the opium of the common man’ and Marx definitely included Christianity in it. So, understand his game, but if you want to play by it, I can tell you that we Hindus have no problem. Wait for my next post in a few minutes

    • Shlok

      @Makarand Sane continued, read this article on what your Bible is all about. If you want to play the ‘exit’ game with me that you only believe in Jesus and New Testament, then I will send you various sites about Jesus. Are you ready for it. Mr Insane, take this as a warning. Hindus are sick and tired of persons like you and Cynical. You will be sorry that you crossed swords with us. Stop being abusive about us

      @
      The 6 Raunchiest, Most Depraved Sex Acts (From the Bible)

      By Shayn Nicely August 13, 2008 3,290,227 views

      What happens when you take a really skanky sex story and dress it up in a lot of flowery words? You get the Bible. Or large chunks of it, anyway.

      Sure, rather than using phrases such as “reverse frog squat,” or “slinging manjam,” Biblical sex is referenced almost exclusively as “coming in unto” (a phrase still used by porn stars who tend to drop the “in unto”). But once you get past the unimaginative verbs, the Bible has some nasty, nasty stories. Such as:

      #6. Lot Has Drunk, Drunk Sex in a Cave. With His Daughters.

      Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_16546_the-6-raunchiest-most-depraved-sex-acts-from-bible.html#ixzz2dQrfCHpq

      Sunday school lessons tend to focus on God turning Lot’s wife into a pillar of salt like she’s starring in one of Sarah Connor’s nightmares from T2. It’s the sort of imagery that might distract you from something like flagrant incest. But sure enough, at Genesis 19:30-36:

      Something tells us Lot’s daughters would lose any drinking game centered around “Never Have I Ever.” If you’ve done it in a cave–and you’ve done it with your dad–you’ve probably also done it tangled in Fruit By The Foot or by accident with a vegetable.
      They were so eager to secure some seamen that they nearly polluted the genetic pool for all who came after them. Or maybe they just thought that a world populated by exponentially degenerative DNA sounded funny. To their credit, maybe that’s why we have viral videos today.

      To Make it Even Weirder…

      Speaking of people who might want to steer clear of drinking games, the Bible seems to blame the whole thing on booze, a strategy you’ll recognize from work the morning after karaoke night. The alcohol in this case is wine, which raises the question: how much wine do you have to drink before you became oblivious to the fact that you were having sex with your daughter … a second time?

      #5. Jacob, Two Sisters, And What the Hell, a Handmaid

      In Genesis 29: 21-28, Jacob had taken a job where he was to be paid entirely in woman. His boss, Laban, promised his daughter Rachel in exchange for seven years of work. After the seven years, Laban pulled a fast one and swapped in his ugly daughter, Leah, instead:

      Unless Leah and Rachel were sisters of the identical “Mary-Kate and Ashley” variety, there is very little reason why Jacob wouldn’t realize fairly early in the process that he had the wrong sister. Who knows, maybe they were serving some of Lot’s date-rape wine at the party.
      The Torah offers further exposition in Megillah 13b: Jacob and Rachel had actually expected Laban to perform the wife-swap and devised a secret signal to reveal that it was really her under the veil (apparently lifting the veil was too obvious a solution).

      However, in a last-minute display of womanly wile (what Toran scholars agree is “bitchiness” in modern English), Rachel taught Leah the signal, and she used it to double-double cross Jacob, fucking him in every possible meaning of the word.

      After waking up to the presumably hideous Leah, Jacob offered to work another seven years just to get Rachel. This teaches Christians today that the Rachel of Genesis was hotter than the Rachel of Friends. Leah, however, was named after “hidden beauty,” or “butterface.”

      Leah (left) with sister Rachel.

      To Make it Even Weirder…

      If you read the passage again you’ll notice that right in the middle of it is mention of a third woman: Zilpah, Leah’s “hand maid.” She’s right between the verse commencing the night of boning and the verse concluding it. What was she doing there? Watching? Is it our fault that we’re picturing that whole scene as just a writhing Chex mix of sex organs?

      Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_16546_the-6-raunchiest-most-depraved-sex-acts-from-bible.html#ixzz2dQsue2Gh

      #4.

      God Gives You Tips on How to Hold Your Load

      If you’ve ever heard masturbation referred to as “onanism”, well, you’ve got one guy to thank. Onan was apparently one of the pioneers in the art of ejaculating somewhere other than into a sex partner, as we see in Judah 38:8-10:

      Now there’s something a woman never forgets. You’re getting busy with your husband’s brother, he splooges on the ground, and promptly gets slain by the LORD. Talk about awkward.

      This particular verse was taken slightly out-of-context when it gave birth to “onanism,” which refers to both coitus interruptus and masturbation. It’s probably just as well that he died, and didn’t have to walk around the rest of his life listening to people refer to jerking off as “Doing an Onan.”

      To Make it Even Weirder…

      This story became the basis for Christian arguments against masturbation. The story does not address the counter-argument: what if God has no righteous purpose for your semen that particular day, and you’re just bored?

      God: Hard on Masturbation.

      But more importantly, what about women? They don’t have seeds to spill at their whimsy. Yet female masturbation never come up in the thousand or so pages in which he rambles about everything from having almonds in your diet to how he owns an awesome robe. Surely a fair God who loves all his children equally wouldn’t allow women to masturbate and not men!

      Or we could just point out that if God killed everyone who masturbated, Japan would have ceased to exist sometime in 2005.

      Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_16546_the-6-raunchiest-most-depraved-sex-acts-from-bible.html#ixzz2dQtCu5lg

      #3. I Thought She Was a Prostitute, But She Was My Daughter-in-Law!

      Try to find all the things wrong in this passage, from Gen. 38:15-16:
      You’d think the Bible would’ve just edited out all of the misconceptions involving veils, considering how many times people accidentally have sex with the wrong person in this book. Pesky veils, and now our only excuses are … like … alcohol, right, Lot?

      “Odd. This feels exactly like strangling my daughter-in-law.”

      Of course us modern westerners probably don’t realize the kind of impact a veil can have on a relationship. Our women are free to just walk around with their faces flapping in the wind, heralding their identity to the world. You have to hand it to the countries where women still wear veils: it must be a lot easier to write sitcom episodes that revolve around wacky cases of mistaken identity.

      To Make it Even Weirder…

      Note that the frisky femme above is the same femme (Tamar) who got to witness Onan being slain by the LORD for coitus interruptus. Getting right back on that horse, Tamar! Only instead of a horse, it’s Judah–Onan’s dad. Score!

      If you don’t think that’s hot, you’ve … never been to a really drunk family reunion where everyone’s wearing veils and no one is aware it’s a family reunion.

      #2. Solomon Gives Boobies 10 Fingers Up

      Solomon’s Song, which he creatively titled Song of Solomon, was mostly about boobies. The below references can be seen in 1:13, and 2:6, and 4:5, and 4:16, and 5:4, and 7:7-8 . . . and 8:10… OK, the whole thing was pretty much “Titties, titties, I love titties.” Take a look:

      Damn. We don’t know why this is in the Bible, and we don’t care! If Danielle Steele wants to write songs about Solomons and throbbing members and shit, who are we to tell her no? Not Biblical scholars, that’s who. If Soloman had stuck around to write the whole Bible, we might’ve gotten a more ripped Jesus and bodice cleavage so awesome it deserves a cinematic vehicle all its own

      The reference to women with tower-breasts has caused some confusion, though. Since we prefer a literal interpretation, we think Solomon’s concubines had breasts that were three stories tall with look-out posts in the cleavage. Either way, the Bible is a bigger supporter of breasts than a push-up bra. If you don’t like that, then you can be the one to explain to God why you chose to illustrate every book of the Bible except this one.

      To Make it Even Weirder…

      Here’s a challenge: see if you can envision any possible metaphor for 5:4, “My beloved put his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him”.

      #1. Gods and Girls

      So you’ll notice that most of these are from Genesis, the early days of the Bible when apparently mankind was first experimenting with just how creepy and weird sex could get. But probably nothing in the book tops what happens in Genesis 6:4:

      Just to be clear, because there is some confusion: we here at Cracked are not doctors. We know a suspicious amount of information about sex, yes, and are pithy like House, but are not technically “doctors.”

      However, we did take fifth grade science, which probably mentioned Gregor Mendel and his famous pea study. In case you haven’t taken fifth grade science, it basically something about how … when two things … and then … something about traits. Like we said, we’re not doctors. We do know that the baby of an African person and a Chinese person looks kind of African and kind of Chinese; from this we can infer that the baby of a giant and a woman would look kind of like a HUGE baby.

      This did not deter the women of the day, who may have gone along with the whole thing based on a preconception about giants and giant genitalia. We’re guessing that didn’t last long, as thresholds for pain eventually give way and even if they don’t, vaginas do.
      And nine months later, surprise! You’re giving birth to a veritable six-year-old! Hope you’ve been having so much giant-sex in the meantime that your vagina is approximately as passable as a Slip N Slide, because that’s going to come in handy when Junior runs out of it, already holding a Nerf ball

      To Make it Even Weirder…

      This happens right before God causes the famous flood that destroys everything on the earth (except for Noah and everybody on his boat). So of all the perversions mankind has ever invented, it appears the giant sex was the one thing that was just too weird for God, to the point that everyone else had to suffer for it.

      Nice going, guys.

  5. Vineet

    @Makarand

    Your name if broken in 3 will give a meaning which will reflect your state of mind.

    Anyone with iota of knowledge about the way bhakti songs about Krishn ji were made knows that they were done as recently as a few hundred years ago by Surdas, Raskhan and these are most popular today. In real story he went to Mathura in early teens at max, ending your bra picking sequence there and then.

    You are a rice convert and we have seen tendencies of those converting to Christianity and Islam that they start badmouthing hindus. Hinduism allows and rather encourages search of God through new thoughts and hence you have multiple routes to god. You monotheists cannot even comprehend that and hence start making fun of it. Actually you do it because you cannot just fathom it.

    How much money you took to get converted – the going rate in Delhi is around 3-3.5k per month.

    Sanatan Dharm or the original name of Hinduism is a collection of values which places importance of your actions topmost and we dont follow the asslicking of GAWD model of mid-eastern cults.

    With all the variety of philosophies Sanatan Dharma philosophies did not fight against each other. Our millions and millions of gods/demi gods can co-exist peacefully but the mid-eastern cults of Islam and Christianity fight amongst themselves in Shia-Sunni or Protestant-Catholic etc though they claim there god is one.

    So just shut-up and get lost. Go with the begging bowl for your monthly payment

  6. karan

    @Makarand Sane the Baptist
    Do not leave your members of MAS (mutual
    appreciation society ) ,togather continue your OAH (operation of abuse Hinduism) as per knowledge toutered by your missonry fathers alongwith your mentor Cynical the
    Bapatist.

  7. Shlok

    @Cynical can’t sleep at night due to rapes taking place in our country. I suggest him to go to Islamic Republic of Saudi Arabia where a poweful and faithful Islamic preacher rapes and then kills his own daughter but does not need to go to jail. People there believe http://www.examiner.com/article/saudi-arabia-islamic-cleric-rapes-tortures-kills-daughter-pays-finehim when he says that he doubts his 5 year old daughter’s virginity please read

  8. Shlok

    @Cynical, you can’t sleep at night. You might go settle in the US.

    There is an average of 207,754 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year in the US, compared to 25,000 rapes in India in 2011. Now compare India’s population of 1.2 billion with the US having less than 300 million. Now you don’t need to be a mathematician to analyze which country is safer for women

  9. Shlok

    @Cynical, I am aware you will say that in India most cases of rape are not reported and that the actual figures are higher. Maybe but even in the US 54% cases are not reported so 207,754 is much less than the correct figure. So stop you slanderous campaign against India. Read http://www.rainn.org/statistics

  10. Dharma

    Vedic religion “Sanatana Dharma” is the greatest religion there is. It is the only religion given by God Lord Sri Krishna at the beginning of creation. All other religions have ordinary men as their founder. All Hindus should be proud! They have the greatest gift! The greatest path to God! The greatest source of all good, knowledge, strength, and connection to God. They should know that the Vedas are the complete world of God and that India is Maha Bharat. Hinduism is the mother of all religion, the source, the inspiration and light. The Supreme Lord Sri Krishna shines the light on all souls! Even those who pass off the “one way” nonsense who are clueless about the truth that they deny.

  11. santosh kumar sharma

    Mai hindu dharm change kar ke ishai dharm ko kabool karna chahta hu.

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